Hypergamy and alpha behavior

i received an email from a girl i knew back in Japan about 2 weeks.  “did you quit cooking or something? haven’t seen any new pictures.” before the blogging i used to post pics of what i was cooking on FB. we’ll call this lady Ms DC. she’s 32, very pretty, relatively sweet woman. she just recently finished her MBA, face-8, body-9.5 (seriously), personality-7. once i got settled here she IM’D me on fb. something to the tune of suggesting when i retire the 2 of us need to get together and start a family. i have no doubt she was joking, but something about it seemed oddly unfamiliar of her. our history is as follows: i knew her back in japan. she was on my ship, she worked in the IT field and she was ALWAYS flirty with me. but, when i attempted to escalate she acted aloof and disinterested, but still flirty. she was probably about 24-25 at the time. i ended up dating nancy and Mrs DC flirtation went into overdrive. i ended up having to tell her, “sorry girl, i tried and you weren’t interested. i have a gf now…and trust me, it’s better you hear this from me than have HER approach you.” nancy’s mexican, VERY mexican. lol. danny 2.0 was in full effect by this point.

fast forward to now. she just turned 30 when she sent me that IM. her “family mode” alarm HAS to be screaming.  i asked her, AGAIN, that why was she so sure i was willing to have a family with her. she touted her education, earning ability, my pension, my great cooking, how our kids would be beautiful. i had to point out to her, “baby, i could give 2 shits about how much you make. so why do you think i’d be doing cart-wheels to have you as my woman.” she mentioned how i was “always after her” back in japan. i laughed, “yup, back in 2001 i gave chase, and i ended up with nancy for almost a year. you should have jumped onto the danny train when it was still in your station.”

this all transpired well before i found out about the manosphere or had heard of hypergamy.

i’ve always laughed when i hear woman lament how she can’t understand whay she’s single when: she got her master’s, she’s got a great job, she’s outgoing, she makes really good money. and i always remind them, “well, you’re describing qualities that women look for in men, maybe you should look for a girlfriend.” i’m just as likely to bang the girl serving my fries at the local burger joint as i am a CEO. matter of fact fry girl is probably less likely to give me shit than the CEO.

the woman who didn’t give me her number but was clearly attracted to me…she’s 26, also just finished her MBA. her father is retired military (VERY senior level enlisted retiree). i’m at the bottom rung of senior enlisted ranking. i’ll pull in $50-60k a year without my retirement pension. see where i’m heading with this?

i’ve posted about my “lawyer phase”, and those women KNEW i made very little money, hell….i didn’t even own a suit. but they still wanted me, still suggested a relationship. none of the encounters with any of them ended because they wanted it to be over. usually the problem was our totally incompatible schedules (i was going to college and working full-time).

i was thinking about this the past few days. and i had to wonder; would a woman’s hypergamous nature get thrown to the wind when she encounters a man with alpha characteristics?


55 Comments on “Hypergamy and alpha behavior”

  1. dannyfrom504 says:

    no, i wasn’t talking just money. i meant socio-econmic status. most hypergamous women don’t like dating “below themselves” and i’m assuming (i don’t have a masters and a vangina) prefer to date on equal or higher levels.

    but i guess in the long run, despite all other factors, there are certain universal qualities that make all women tingle; regardess of hypergamy.

    guess i was just thinking out loud.

    • dogsquat says:

      I think I get what you’re saying.

      Money, though, is usually short-hand for socioeconomic status. There are rare exceptions (male politician married to female lawyer) where more status=less money. Mostly, though, high status means more money.

      It’ll be interesting to see what everyone else thinks.

    • dannyfrom504 says:

      comments? HERE. lulz. this place is a comments ghost-town. i RARELY get comments. i think i average about close to 200 views a day.

      and believe me, i’m surprised and flattered to get THAT much traffic.

  2. johnnymilfquest says:

    Good post Danny. You’re so right about women projecting their materialistic desires onto men.

    “i was thinking about this the past few days. and i had to wonder; would a woman’s hypergamous nature get thrown to the wind when she encounters a man with alpha characteristics?”

    Remember that while a lawyer chick might want a doctor or a lawyer husband, how likely is she to get one in practice?

    Remember that lawyer chick is competing with young attractive women from ALL socio-economic backgrounds.

    You have a stable well-paid job right now and I’m guessing that you’d find work as a radiographer once your enlistment ends, right?

    Even from a purely materialistic perspective you’re doing better than MOST men. Especially with record unemployment and a global economic depression right now.

    • dannyfrom504 says:

      Johnny-
      I don’t know. Again, I wasn’t really looking at the money side. I was thinking more along the lines of her and the status based on her job in relation to say….a mechanic who was alpha.

      Would hypergamy steer her clear of the mechanic or would his alpha nature quell the hypergamy and…..

      I’m brain farting now. I need to go to sleep.

      • johnnymilfquest says:

        The changes in the real economic world have drastically changed women’s mate choices.

        In England recently, we had stockbrokers retraining as plumbers. The plumbers made more money. Now we have a surplus of trained of plumbers and Polish immigrants have changed the picture once again.

        This girl who wanted a piece of you ten years down the line probably saw you as someone masculine, assertive AND a good provider. Daddy material in her eyes.

  3. So good is this question that I am writing a post to address it!

    Thanks Danny!

  4. haven’t read the comments yet, but my initial take is that hypergamy is for *relationships*. it is not for flings.

    you say that the lawyer chicks didn’t want to end it with you, you did the dumping, but why do i get the suspicion that they wanted you as a long term fling.

    i mean this as a compliment, and i agree with your theorizing. when a chick is presented with an alpha man, she wants to fuck him, simple as that. when she is presented with a man that really makes her tingle, she starts thinking like a man — i want to fuck that.

    then, maybe, she wants to hook him into a relationship.

    it is the whole two ladder thing.

    i think what i am saying is that hypergamy is always in effect, but once in a while a girl wants to bang, screw relationships.

    something like that.

    i’m tired.

    • dannyfrom504 says:

      Lol. I just thought that it was funny after realizing I had 2 women with master’s attracted.

      That’s when the whole “hypergamy” part came into play. Because, honestly, I’m not rolling a BMW anytime soon.

      Sent from my iPhone

  5. […] Danny asked an important question regarding a woman’s hypergamy and what it’s based on. In particular, will a woman pass up a rich beta for an alpha of lower income or wealth. […]

  6. Maria says:

    Privateman brought me here thru his post on the topic. It’s fascinating reading. I have 5 sons, 4 are 18-22, and I forwarded this blog (among others) to them so they can educate themselves. Thank you all for putting your thoughts out there for the rest of us.

    I’ve had girlfriends end friendships with me because of jealousy over the talents of my husband (house renos) and the fact that we live below our means, work our asses off (together) in the reno industry, and travel multiple times every year. It’s really quite sad to see the depths of sickness that can exist in the female mind… and hamsters run amok…

    I feel that the landscaper would be a much sought after to most women because of the tangible beauty he creates, that everyone else can see and admire, and a high income woman would get the tingle from the admiration from others. This would make up for his lower income (perhaps, tho some landscapers make huge dollars) (and rightly so) I have to admit I feel warm and fuzzy towards hubs when others gush about his talents… but I feel that way about him most days anyways… (he’s 53, I’m 45, 2nd marriage for both of us)

    This is my idea to help my boys keep their $ from family court and greedy gold digging hypergamous females: Form a limited company (corporation in canada) the company works and invoices get paid to the corp. Son lives on say $50K a year, and the rest of it stays in the corp. His taxes always show he only earns $50k, and the $ in the corp can’t be touched if the corp was formed before the marriage. Wife doesn’t even need to know he has a corp, just that he works for ‘abc corp’ and earns $50k a year.

    So far none of them have LTRs, they’re too busy working on their game 🙂

    • ASF says:

      You’ve done a great thing for your sons.

      • Lily says:

        Sorry to say, I suspect this Maria’s post is written by a man.

        • dannyfrom504 says:

          LILY!!!!!!!!

          Long time no see love. Thank you for the visit dear. MISS you. I almost fired off an email your way b/c of your absence.

          How are the…..ok, I’ll email you soon. Lol.

          You think Maria is a man? I’ll have to re-read.

          Sent from my iPhone

      • Lily says:

        Would be great to hear from you! Just had a manic summer though been active again this week, ‘back to school’ mode.

        I felt a bit bad about saying that and wondered whether to say anything.

        But it was my first instinct, I read that post immediately as I thought it was the other Maria (who has sadly deleted her blog after receiving threats after being linked to from of all places HUS). Language isn’t right.

      • Lily says:

        I hope I’m wrong.

        Oh if you have time pop over to In Mala Fide to look at the thread about Monica Lewinsky. I went there after seeing another link & see the way the readers there react to this woman called Faith. It’s frightfully funny.

    • dogsquat says:

      Maria, it’s my friend who is the landscaper. He’s a nice guy and makes a decent living (he was doing waaaaaayy better before the economic collapse). He’s also in shape and a decent looking guy.

      I used to work for him, and let me tell you:

      If you’re interested in a woman who cares about social status, letting on that you’re a landscaper is a bad, bad idea. You might as well tell them you’re a felon.

      • Bellita says:

        Are you serious, Dogsquat?

        Remember that guy I said I wanted to send cookies to? (Update: I sent them!) He works in landscaping–maintenance mostly, but he can also do design. I’m with Maria here: a landscaper is a great catch.

        Anyway, I’m glad your friend’s girlfriend is proud of what he does.

      • dogsquat says:

        Bellita, a 1992 Dodge Caravan is a pretty good minivan, but it ain’t gonna make dating women any easier.

        Understand – I’m not denigrating that work. Hell, I did it for years. It takes some intellect, planning, and disciplined effort to keep several acres of turf, trees, and ornamentals happy. It requires the eye of a painter and the soul of an artist transform dirt into something that pleases the homeowner as he/she pulls into the driveway.

        But

        Every guy has mowed the yard. To them, that’s all landscaping is. Most women don’t even give it a thought – they just call the property manager when there’s a brown spot in the grass.

        It’s dirty, mostly unskilled manual labor. It doesn’t pay well unless you’re a boss/owner.

        Here’s a conversation I overheard working as a bouncer that’s seared into my brain:

        Hot Girl #1 – Oh! He’s cute! Let’s go over there!
        Hot Girl #2 – Ugh. I heard he works at McDonald’s.
        Hot Girl #1 – Gross.
        Hot Girl #2 – Let’s go talk to Roger and his friend – he’s a dentist and the friend is some kind of surgeon.
        Hot Girl #1 – Yeah!

        That convo is almost word for word. It was one of my Red Pill moments.

        The original “cute guy” the girls were talking about was a regular patron, and a casual buddy of mine. His family had many business interests, and this guy’s job was to manage his dad’s McDonald’s franchises. He was in charge of 18 or so restaurants, and I’d bet you a kidney (or any endocrine organ you’d care to wager) he makes more money than the dentist.

        However, neither of the girls wanted a boyfriend that “worked at McDonald’s”. What, after all, would their friends think?

        Same deal with “mowing the grass”.

        I thank the Great Magnet every day that there are a few good women out there who mail landscapers cookies.

        There are even some misguided souls (blessings be upon them) who stoop to that lowest of levels, that most despicable of activities….these poor creatures enjoy Biblical congress with the foulest, basest Scum-Of-Humanity….paramedics. Oh! How their mothers wail! Their fathers gnash their teeth and smear their faces with ash! Relatives, both close and distant, hang their heads in mortal shame! Purulent eruptions of sulphur-smelling dishonor would explode from the tender flesh of Our Sainted Hospital Administrators if this Dark Trend were allowed to continue!

        Those misguided souls should give those foul, disgusting ambulance drivers a backrub now.

      • dogsquat says:

        Sorry, Belitta. That last paragraph is for

        SOME WEIRD CHICK WHO IS READING OVER MY SHOULDER.

      • Bellita says:

        @Dogsquat
        I’m starting to think every man should be lucky to have a weird chick. 😉

  7. ASF says:

    danny, I’ll bang your friend. 😀

  8. Lily says:

    I think we talked about this before in regards to some lawyer lady? She wants you 🙂

    IME As long as the guy’s got some sort of ‘status’, or rather value in her eyes it does.
    I think I talked about the woman I know who is in married to a landscape architect so same and she must earn at least 5 x as much as he does.

    I think you being in the navy confers that. Of course seems you’d have good earning potential with mixture of starting a new career on top of your pension.

    There’s also the element that women who were interested you beforehand but were worried about your job are now gearing up as you’re leaving.

    • dannyfrom504 says:

      Ok. Sweet. Thanks for the insight Dear.

      Did I mention it’s SOOO good to see you round these parts again?

      Don’t fret Angel, I’ll ponder your input and reply soon enough. Good to see again.

      Sent from my iPhone

      • Bellita says:

        @Dogsquat
        I suspect this will become more common in the next 10 years, as women continue to go to college at higher rates than men.

        This reminded me of something a friend recently told me: “There are three sexes in in China: men, women and women with PhDs.”

        Apparently, women with PhDs don’t want to date men who have only regular degrees, while their preferred pool of men with PhDs are happy to “date down.”

      • Looking Glass says:

        @ Bellita:

        Chinese society these days is insanely technocratic. So, to those Chinese women with PhDs, the only higher status is really someone already with a PhD that does something more. The woman’s PhD just isn’t important to them, thus they’ll date/marry others.

        @ dogsquat:

        Women will Bachelor’s will finally start to realize that the degree doesn’t mean all that much, but that’ll take time and for the Higher Education bubble to burst (but that will also take a long while).

        As for dating a woman with a lot of degrees, dealing with them is more about never letting her attempt to pull rank. A degree is a sign you jumped through hoops. If it’s in a technical field, they have skills in that field and it doesn’t mean much else. That’s the big key. As my father put it (had a PhD in a STEM field), “a PhD is the legal ability to be stupid on a witness stand as an ‘expert’ “. It’s just a piece of paper, in the end.

      • dannyfrom504 says:

        LOL.

        GET SOME MARINE!!!!!

        keep me posted.

        and just remember for every Navy joke you can spew, i have a “fuckin’ Marine” smh story.

      • dannyfrom504 says:

        “As my father put it (had a PhD in a STEM field), “a PhD is the legal ability to be stupid on a witness stand as an ‘expert’ “. It’s just a piece of paper, in the end.”

        HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! well put.

        i think i might go to welding school when i finish this navy crap. that or some kind of mechanic training program. seriously.

  9. Maria says:

    @Lily

    OMG that’s hilarious. You think I’m a man because I do renos? Well yes, it is more a man’s work field, but I really do enjoy working with my hands and fixing stuff. I have a blog, ( think it’s attached to my kotoula01 email) but hardly have time to post, and it’s about my chickens, I keep urban hens in my Calgary back yard. I guess I could post a photo, but why should I care if you think I’m a man…lol. I just want to make sure my sons don’t end up emasculated and broke. So far so good.

    @dogsquat

    Any man who works hard and earns a honest living should be attractive to a woman looking for a future that includes children. Esp a hunky landscaper who can keep the yard looking in tip top shape…we just did a retaining wall and it nearly killed us lol. Unfortunately today’s females are largely entitlement princesses….and hypergamous, so not much hope for the lowly landscapers…it’s sickening. In some ways I’m happy I don’t have a daughter. My boys adore me…and so does my husband, what more could one ask for in this life?

    Best to you all. Maria

  10. Bb says:

    Danny said, “i was thinking about this the past few days. and i had to wonder; would a woman’s hypergamous nature get thrown to the wind when she encounters a man with alpha characteristics?”

    And then: ” Again, I wasn’t really looking at the money side. I was thinking more along the lines of her and the status based on her job in relation to say….a mechanic who was alpha. Would hypergamy steer her clear of the mechanic or would his alpha nature quell the hypergamy and…..”

    This is a great post, Danny. In terms of marriage, it didn’t matter so much to me what he did for a living and the differences in our education, but more about social fit, and how our how our lives worked together. Are we comfortable talking out and hanging with each other’s friends? Do our families mix well together? (You’re gonna see each other’s families all the time) Do we share the same value system (very important if you plan on having children), etc.

    Now in terms of hypergamy, beyond the attraction, I valued integrity first, then intelligence. A lawyer, doctor, mechanic, landscaper, it didn’t matter to me. If he had the social fit plus everything else, I was good to go.

    Hope that makes sense.

  11. dannyfrom504 says:

    Maria-
    “Unfortunately today’s females are largely entitlement princesses….and hypergamous, so not much hope for the lowly landscapers…it’s sickening.”

    yes it is. and thank you for being good enough to point it out. it’s refreshing to hear a woman say it.

    and sadly, these are the same women i’m culling through. if it weren’t for some relative understanding of game, i’d be scre…..actually, i WOULDN’T be screwed. lulz.

  12. resrieg says:

    Other factors can more than make up for a lower socioeconomic status. Then again, when you’re in college your immediate concern when thinking of whether a guy is relationship potential isn’t based on whether he’ll be able to provide for you and a family. Even if a guy shows that his socioeconomic status is a bit low through the dates he takes a girl on, that wouldn’t be a turnoff. One of my friends went on a first date with a guy who dropped $100 on their dinner, clearly trying to show off, and it definitely didn’t lead her to seeing him as a better catch.

    I think at my age, social status is the equivalent of socioeconomic status later in life, in terms of hypergamy, but that too can be overlooked when other positive qualities reveal themselves.

    • dannyfrom504 says:

      resrie-

      what do you consider “positive qualities”?

      and the guy dropping $100 on dinner, clearly compensating. my typical first date is coffee. if i’m not feeling it, i can without having to sit through an awkward meal. i can usually summize in 30- minutes whether or not i’m into girl or not.

  13. resrieg says:

    Just basic personality traits that make the two of you compatible. At the risk of sounding cliche, someone who has a great sense of humor; someone who clearly demonstrates a passion for something, extra points if it’s something they’re good at; someone who’s understanding and who you can have good conversations with; someone confident. Just to name a few. I definitely think a guy would beat out someone with higher socioeconomic status if he possessed these qualities and the other guy didn’t.

    • dannyfrom504 says:

      Thank you for sharing love.

      I’m digging the make up of having women from all sides posting on this. Married women, college aged women, women in their 30’s and so forth.

      I appreciate all of you chiming in.

  14. Bellita says:

    A general comment now, Danny.

    If I were thinking in terms of purely socioeconomic status, then a man’s job really would be the biggest clue to what kind of a provider he would be if we were married. And I can see why girls who want to be “shopping housewives” would reject poor Dogsquat and all his friends. (The term “shopping housewife” comes from a friend of mine. She doesn’t want to be just any housewife, but one who gets to shop all day, using her husband’s credit card. So she’s holding out for the kind of man who can indulge a wife in that “hobby.” Guess how much success she’s having in this economy? I’ve already started talking to her about what I’ve learned from reading Game blogs, but it hasn’t fully sunk in yet.)

    But there’s so much more to getting along than anyone’s socioeconomic status. Bb has brought up the great issue of compatibility, which has so many other factors than just how much money a man makes or his “alpha” characteristics. I might be wrong, but the hypergamous women described in your post and in this thread all seem to think that they would get along automatically with “alpha millionaires.” Or rather, they honestly believe that they wouldn’t be able to get along with anyone who isn’t an alpha millionaire.

    As for your question about whether a non-millionaire who is alpha would win over a millionaire who is non-alpha . . . I’m going to say that a non-millionaire who is compatible would win over BOTH a millionaire and an alpha who are non-compatible. But a hypergamous woman who doesn’t understand her line of reasoning thinks:

    Money + Alpha = Compatibility

    . . . and that’s where everything goes wrong.

    Anyway, I’m sorry for the long-winded comment.

    • dannyfrom504 says:

      I appreciate your response mahal. I wasn’t looking at money in this inquiry. I was simply pondering a well off woman an ok man, and if his alphaness could dissuade her hypergamy.

      From the comments I’ve received, I’d have to say yes.

      Alpha uber alles.

    • dannyfrom504 says:

      Never underestimate the charm of a good ol’ USMC grunt. Get some Devil Dog.

      Best of luck with the PA. She doesn’t stand a chance, we both know it. Lol.

      Sent from my iPhone

  15. Bb says:

    Danny, Alpha didn’t rule over everything for me. It was part of what got and kept me attracted, but it wasn’t the only quality that made the husband a good catch. Attraction is not the only thing in a successful marriage. Many, many times it’s the last thing we worry about. There are so many other things that are just as equally, if not more so, valuable. Integrity being the biggest, for me.

    • dannyfrom504 says:

      B-
      But….mr wonderful gave you the tingle. Maybe he wasn’t the most alpha, but he landed you (lucky fellah). I understand that alphaness may not be the most important quality a man need possess, but it seems in many cases….it catches the ladies eye. And makes a man more desirable.

  16. johnnymilfquest says:

    I wonder what reaction “Salesman” gets from women?

    He could be earning a pittance or a fortune depending on what he’s selling and how good he is.

    Mind you, it would put women on their guard as well.

    This comment was NOT sent from my iPhone. Because I don’t have one.

  17. dogsquat says:

    Thanks for you-know-what, Doc.

  18. 53 comments! danny you’ve hit the big time.


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