To the Woe of Women

Since “the week of Mentu’s Yam-Bag” has subsided. It’s really me struck how the women are responding to the subject of men opting out of parenthood, and getting a vasectomy. While I could give 2 shits what women in general think of my decision to get the procedure done, there is one person who’s opinion somewhat matters to me.

Now, before Mentu posted I had thought about getting the procedure done. I was about 27-28, and I was actually the assistant to the Dr. who was performing Vas’ (we pronounce them Vas’s in the medical community) and asked my Medical Officer about getting it done. I was told the Command wouldn’t approve it since I had no children and I was so young.

Well guess what? I’m 1 ½ years shy of the big Four-Oh.

One of my friends is a Urology Tech (aka meat-gazing HM) and I plan on going over to speak with him about getting the procedure done. Funny thing is he’s the ONLY MALE uro-tech. lol. Seriously. I know 2 of the Urologists, so I’m hoping I can speak with them as well to find out a bit more about the side effects.

Now I KNOW I’d make a decent father. I’ve been asked numerous times, while checking in someone’s kid for an appointment, “So, how many kids do you have?” Honestly, I’ve been asked that too many times to count. They’re always surprised when I tell them I don’t have any, and that I really don’t think I want kids. I’ve heard damn near every rationalization as to why that’s going to change and how important it is for me to have kids. But guess what….


The only people who have been cool about me telling them my reasons for why I don’t want kids has been….FATHERS. Yup. Of course they’d NEVER say that around their wives. It’s always while within the safety of men. And I admit, my reasons are VERY selfish.

I don’t think I have the patience to spend the next 20 years raising a living thing that requires THAT much work (a dog is just fine though). I like my spontaneity, I like knowing I can pick up my shit and head out the door at any given moment, I like the peace and tranquility of my monastic existence, but most importantly.

It’s too big a risk.

My first priority has ALWAYS been to take care of myself. I’ve seen too many cases (not read about- HEARD FROM THE MOUTHS OF FATHERS) about the absolute crushing experiences they’ve experienced during a divorce, and/or has only been able to see his child MAYBE once a month, if that. Some become so chastised by their ex’s that the kids eventually believe dad really is the demon mom has made him out to be. It’s just not something I’m willing to risk. I’ve worked too hard to get to where I am now, to have everything I’ve worked for taken.

Not I said Dan.

Most women debate with about the joys of fatherhood blah, blah, blah. Fuck that shit. I don’t feel I’m missing out on anything. I don’t feel my life is lacking in any way. I don’t feel this deep need and desire to sire children; at least not in the country’s current state. I feel bad for women though, however THEY made it the way it is. I have a suggestion for you ladies. Next time you hear a woman brag about how she totally got over on baby-daddy….give her a good talking to. But I don’t expect that happen. Not when Oprah and MSM praises women for ruining a man’s life.

I’m guessing as more and more men wake up, more and more will opt out of parenting. I talked to my mother about my looking to get the snip, and obviously she was upset. I’m her eldest and her only Son. But you know what’s funny? She told me this, or something along these lines.

“I’m pretty disappointed in your decision. You’d make an amazing husband, and even better father. But, I respect your decision. I can completely understand why you are so worried about having a child. It’s really sad that the system is so one sided that the only thing you can do is to not become a father.”

Interestingly, while the vasectomy talks were circulating last week, one of my readers Jacquie commented that it’s the same men having vas’ are the very men that NEED to become fathers. If you have a daughter, you want to have an honest talk with her about her REAL chances at landing a quality man to have kids with.

When I talk to women about this shit, they always tell me that I could end up partners with a woman that had 2-3 kids.


The MINUTE I know I’m talking to a single mother of 2-3 kids the first thing I do is be upfront and inform them that I am NOT seeking a LTR with a woman with 2 or more kids. One male blogger actually asked me if REALLY tell women that and I told him DAMN RIGHT I do. They’re usually cool about it at first. But eventually, I need to leave because it’s obvious it bothers her when I keep refusing to LTR them. I don’t want the baby daddy drama, and I ESPECIALLY do not want to raise a kid that’s not mine.  I DO NOT intend on spending my resources on someone else’s kid. The look on women’s faces when they realize I’m serious, and reiterate my reasons the look of despair and disappointment is telling. When I reiterate that more and more men are opting out, they seem shocked. Is this selfish of me?

I could give a fuck.

As bad as I feel for my mom being disappointed, I feel even MORE sorry for the legions of men that have been raped by the family court system. I’m not 100% on my not having kids or getting the procedure done. TBH I could never consider kids unless I were with a woman that I could see as a SERIOUS prospective LTR. Well, guess what- I don’t see that happening in the next 2-3 years. My priority is my retirement, not a gf. And considering I’ll be 40 when I retire….

I think if it were in the cards for me, it would have already happened. Oh well. I always have Brody.

I’ve even been accused of the decision to remain childless as a protest against women, that I’m bitter towards women. I’ve given up elaborating on my reasonings with women. When they call me bitter, I simply reply, “Ok, yup. That’s it.”  From then , the discussion is over. If she attempts to keep me talking, i just tell her I’m done speaking with her on the matter. But I do have to say-

Sorry Mom.

84 Comments on “To the Woe of Women”

  1. aneroidocean says:

    “I like my spontaneity, I like knowing I can pick up my shit and head out the door at any given moment”

    This is why I don’t even have a dog as a pet. When I had the freedom to with my work (past) I loved being able to leave for 2 weeks and not have a care in the world. I don’t want to be beholden to anyone until I’ve made that choice. To think that even if I were to choose to have kids there’s a large possibility that the mother would have effectively lopsided rights versus mine, infuriates me. I would always support my kids, but I’m not going to have any if there’s a very real chance I wouldn’t be able to raise them and instead would have to pay for them and settle for whatever involvement the state allows me.

    Nope, not gonna happen. Another reason I advocate ALWAYS wrapping it up, even if the girl is 100% for sure on birth control (as it’s not 100% effective).

  2. Vicomte says:

    I had two pet rabbits once.

    I forgot to feed them for a couple weeks and they starved to death.

    The problem with rabbits is that they shit everywhere as a matter of course, so there’s no real consequence to forgetting about them, unlike a dog or child that would shit in your house in a more aberrant and attention-getting sort of way.

  3. invictusiii says:

    I like you value my spontaneity. Knowing that I can up and take a trip anywhere without worrying about finding someone to take care of my child is worth a whole lot more to me right now that the “joys of fatherhood”. I can get my fatherhood fix by hanging out with my nephew or with my friend’s children. It is selfish in a way but so is bringing a child into the world that you really have no desire to be there for.

  4. Stingray says:

    You’d make an amazing husband, and even better father. But, I respect your decision. I can completely understand why you are so worried about having a child. It’s really sad that the system is so one sided that the only thing you can do is to not become a father.”

    ^^^^^^This. “Nuff said.

  5. OffTheCuff says:

    Brendan said “if women’s liberation was freedom from the authority of men, then men’s liberation is the freedom from responsiblity to women”. Withdrawing investment is the only card men have, and having a V before children is a huge symbol of that threat.

    What women don’t seem realize is that fatherhood is how we civilize men. Not in the direct way of a father socializing his child, as a mother would. Instead, it’s the *idea* of having your own child, or the possiblity of doing so, that incentivizes the adult male into becoming productive enough to consider fatherhood in the first place.

    I wonder why women don’t get the trade-off we make. Each child you have cuts your income in half (and I have three), so I have less discretionary income now than I did when I earned 1/4 as much, the day I started work. I’d easily be a millionaire by now, with such low expenses.

    • M3 says:


      Many women think guys will be just chompin at the bit to be dads. Well, if they were excluded from the short term mating strategies or marriage lite LTR’s in their prime, instead living it up on porn and xbox, they haven’t invested or put anything in place to be able to afford to have these kids, much less any desire to pump one out so late in the game after being excluded from the ‘fun’ times.

      No, no amount of shaming or pressure or guilt trips will get guys (at least guys like me) to sac the minimalist carefree lifestyle i have to go trade up for a harder more grueling job for a larger paycheck to pay for diapers and formula and baby clothes and toys and support the wife for a couple of months off work and stress and waking up at all hours of the night and diaper changes and loss of free time hearing the wife nag and bitch and moan about what sacrifices she has to make for MY child… especially not after she had her fill of serial boyfriends, college hookups and rode the carousel will i even dream of giving a spinster a child.

      I tell any woman who wants children right off the bat, you must be under 26 years of age and live 5 years with me in total bliss before i dare give in to the beat of the baby clock. Because i want my ‘fun’ before i sack the rest of my life to bringing another one into it.

      That offer pretty much makes it all but certain i will not be a proud pappa anytime soon. Just the way i like it.

    • dannyfrom504 says:

      Since I’m not on the playing field, hearing from fathers helps me understand better.

  6. zorroprimo says:

    Fuck vasectomies. We’ll have the male pill in two years.

    Ever heard of PVPS? Google it.


    Still, your post is dead on target. Marriage is legal castration. Womyns ain’t worth it.

  7. Athol Kay says:

    Do look up Post Vasectomy Pain Syndrome.

    Here’s the thing, some percentage of women react to their man getting a vasectomy the same way they’d react to him losing three inches off his dick.

    Yeah it’s still a dick, but it’s not the same anymore. They need the thrill that he could actually knock them up to be attracted to him.

    What that percentage of women is that react that way, I don’t know. I’ve had a lot of vasectomy = the death of the relationship stories though. I’d love to be able to find some kind of research on that but can’t find anyway.

    • dannyfrom504 says:

      Well seems to me, it’s something to be kept a secret.

      I don’t really need to look anything up since I can just go to Urology.

      Trust me, I’m doing research.

      Sent from my iPhone

      • Annie says:

        Why don’t you want to raise a kid in your 40s? My father had my sister when he was 41, and he was (and is) an awesome dad to her and to me (he had me in his late 20s). I’d say that he was a better dad to my sister because he was more patient, more settled in his career, with more time to spare and more understanding.

        (I’m totally biased though; I love kids, and I’d love to have a litter of them provided I had the money to pay for all of them; but I understand why some people are not so keen of them).

      • dannyfrom504 says:

        see Deti’s comment below.

    • Vicomte says:

      I’ve wondered about that, myself.

      Just the idea of being…sterile.

      Women are attracted to dominance and virility. Eunuchs are fitter than any other to keep a harem in line, but they’re not making any waves amongst the concubines.

      Apologies for that analogy. Jesus.

      • dannyfrom504 says:

        Nah man. Makes sense. But the women KNEW the eunuchs were sterile. That’s why they were always teasing them.

        They knew they’d never be any consequence.

        Sent from my iPhone

      • annie says:

        I agree with your mom, but then I also agree with Athol. Personally, I couldn’t be with a man that I know is sterile, it’s like he chose to be handicapped; he’s not a whole person in my eyes. Sorry, but that’s how I see it (and I’m sure a lot of women would agree with me).

        Btw, why do you want a vasectomy? Can’t you just use condoms, or not pump and dump?

        And what happens if in a year or 5 years from now you meet the woman of your dreams, but she rejects you because she wants kids? That would definitely hurt.

        I have no dog in the fight, so to speak, and I don’t want to come off as judgmental but it doesn’t make sense to me.

      • dannyfrom504 says:

        in 5 years i’ll be in my 40’s. i have no intention of raising a child during that period of my life. if she rejects…..ok. i won’t shame her, i’d actually understand.

  8. Jim says:

    I wouldn’t personally get one but I’m not out here pumping and dumping or dating. Do as you think is best for you.

    IMO though many who refuse to be serfs to the system yet actively pursue sex with the bait in the trap that same system is built upon are is a big reason why things aren’t changing. The real solution is to disengage it completely and on mass. The only reason things remain as they are is 1) men still engage women while having KNOWLEDGE of how things work and 2) they still pay into the system that persecutes and marginalizes them.

    I look at it this way: Instead of producing their draft cards at the recruiter’s office, men should be burning them in defiance. One can dream even though it’s not happening.

  9. JG says:

    Good post. Every man has a right to make his decision on what he wants, no matter what the wenches think of men who do exactly that.

    Your mom is a wise lady. Mine has supported me in my decision not to marry (I’m 52). Seeing her horrible mood swings while growing up was all the reason I needed to decide to never get married and never trust a woman with my life. And when men do marry that’s exactly what they are doing – entrusting their life to a woman and her moods.

  10. M3 says:

    Yup. I am very selfish for the same reason, and that i haven’t found a single woman who would make a worthy mother, much less a wife. The one woman i did marry wanted them real bad, but i put my foot down and said that unless all the ducks were lined up in row (stable jobs both of us, she’s ready to be full time mommy and not leave it with grandparents/daycare shit, we have a nice sized home and not a small apartment, and financial security for one of us out of work) that i’d be double bagging it everytime.

    My marriage ended shortly there after. I consider myself lucky not having kids dragged out through the separation / divorce process as it was bad enough.

    Upon reflection i think if i had kids, it would have been a grave mistake. I really don’t have it in me to spend the time required to raise a kid, no matter how good of a job i might do.. i’d hate to think i’d resent the children (or wife) for forcing me to ‘man up’ and have children because it’s what society at large expects. and at this point, nearly 7 billion and counting, im really not worried about helping the population grow, much less feel optimistic about where its headed.

    I feel having children nowadays is tantamount to an act of cruelty. Just sayin.

    I’m in it for myself now. The world didn’t care to include me in it when i was in my sexual prime. I pay it back in kind. To quote Cptn. Jack – Take what you can, give nothin back.

  11. Dick says:

    Had my kids young and dumb. Their mother was worthless. I am very happy to have my kids (now full grown adults) but I wish I had not picked such a horrible mother for them. After my divorce, I recognized that I am a dumb ass who would certainly impregnate the first cute 25yr old that passed by so in a moment of clarity, I got the snip. I do not regret it in the least. Also, I know that women like the raw dog much more than if you bag it. It is nice to be able to let go inside with no fear.

  12. Shameful says:

    Have to agree with your assessment. I’m a fairly young guy and i still think i’d like a family but i know i can’t do it in the West. Though i’ve ran counter to the minimalist route to trying to make as much as possible, to invest. Yeah i know shit storm is coming, but my hope is if i work like a dog and gamble/invest like a genuis in 10-20 to years i go to wherever feminism hasnt culture bombed and set up shop. America is still a decent place to pull in money.

    And in that case with proper financial planning can hold most assets in entities shielded from crazy laws that move wealth from men to women. I sometimes laugh at the absurd lengths men have to go through to protect themselves. Where is this equality i keep hearing about?

  13. dannyfrom504 says:

    what i want to reiterate:
    this post (despite my diatribe) is about my mother’s disappointment in my considering not having kids. it REALLY hurts her, and i feel shitty about that. BUT, she understands my POV, and respects it. she’s never given me a guilt trip or questioned me.

    all she’s ever wanted was grandchildren, and her eldest has been mentioning to opt out of kids. i can understand her disappointment, yet appreciate her support.

    i know it has to be hard for her. and i’m thankful she’s not guilt tripping me.

    i’m lucky.

    • M3 says:

      You’re mom sounds a lot like mine. My brothers passing means i’m the only one capable of giving her grandchildren. Yet she has fully supported me in my choice with no act of guilt tripping. She recognizes the disaster that most north american women are, especially after my marriage tanked it solidified it for her. While she would love to see me bring someone over from poland to try with, i think there’s something in the water here that just makes import women go crazy and not worth the risk.

      I wouldn’t say my mom is disappointed, more resigned, perhaps heartbroken. She loves doting upon children and would love nothing more than to dote upon a continuation of her family line. But she has seen everything i’ve gone through and is the one standing beside me holding the line against ‘man up’ bs. She’s the ultimate unselfish person because she wants me.. *HER* child to be healthy and happy first and foremost, fuck the rest.

  14. SDF says:

    What is really scary is that this attitude, while completely understandable, is also unsustainable. Our society just cannot stand something like this kicking out its supports. We are seeing what happened to the black family writ large on society as a whole, and this will result in a society not worth going your own way in.

    We are DOOMED! DOOMED I say!

  15. Jacquie says:

    I’m sure some days my children don’t know what to make of their mom. We’ve always been very close, family oriented and wanted a large family, dreamed of family get togethers with everyone’s spouses and grandchildren running everywhere. Dreams shattter, reality crashes in.

    I don’t push my children, no guilt trips, they need to do what’s best for them. I tell them things I’ve learned over the past year, point out the facts and then they need to decide for themselves. The facts are cold and counter most everything we taught them while growing up. I don’t want them to make any decisions for their lives based on how I might feel about it though. The world is a different place; Mr. D and I lucked out, I can see that now. The same may not be true for my children. Yes, its sad, but its reality and you can’t build your life on fairytales. Set a course for where you want to go, doing your best, being the most you can be and if someone comes along for part of the ride or most of it then just enjoy it while you have it. Take what you want when you can and leave the rest. Life is too short.

  16. Spacetraveller says:


    This is not a guilt trip (OK, OK, it is, lol) but I just wanted to say that decisions we take for today should be taken with tomorrow in mind.
    Make of that what you will, Your Maj.

    In the meantime, news just in – Brody and I are back together!

    Now, just so you know…
    Brody might become a father soon…
    Don’t ask me how though, the details are unimportant 😀

  17. deti says:

    “It’s too big a risk.”

    That’s really what it comes down to.

    A man who has children and a family loves them very much. You won’t hear them say it often, but they do.

    The risk that their children will be taken from them is more than most men can bear. Many are forced to go through it against their will anyway. Their wives divorce them for the crime of being beta or unattractive or changing too much.

    Many men were happy to take on the responsibility of marriage and fatherhood when those risks were low or at least manageable, controllable or quantifiable. There used to be “insurance policies” in place, so to speak — wife leaves husband; children stay with him.

    The risks have become completely uncontrollable and cannot be reasonably managed. The insurance is gone now. You could take the risk. If you “win”, you get burdens and obligations, and rewards which might –MIGHT– be commensurate with the obligations you take on.

    But if you maek the wrong call, if you assess her character incorrectly, if you make a fatal error, if you select the wrong partner, if she just decides she’s done — you lose. And make no mistake about it — YOU will be the one who loses. Moreover, the odds of failure are too high — 50% in most cases.

    Men, being the rational creatures they are, have taken stock and simply opted out: no marriage, no children. The risk is too high. The odds of failure are too high. The penalties for failure are too steep.

  18. AndyW says:

    Coming from the “Married with Children” perspective (Al Bundy for president btw) I commend you for standing up for what is right for you and not what society is cramming down our throats. I would not trade anything for my 2 kids, they are beautiful, smart awesome kids (one boy-6, one girl-2), my wife on the other hand I would trade for a bag of oranges. The only bright side that I have is that financially we are some of the lucky ones that can afford to survive on my sole income. So I have a stay at home mom or her own choice. I use “her own choice” loosely being that she can be batshit crazy at times and the outside world does funny things to her after prolonged exposer of the workforce. I came frightenly close to becoming a statistic about 18 months ago….. that’s when I found the manosphere. Had I discovered the wool was being pulled over my eyes 10 years ago I guarandamn-tee that I would be one property over from you in LA in 3 years. My energy now goes to my 6 year old son and seeing that he grows up a proper man knowing damn well that his life is what he makes it and its not to be revolved around some womans wants and desires.

    Your perspective on things DAnny is spot on for what our next generation needs. Seeing a 6 year old boy understand red pill rationality is what keeps me strong at doing what ever it takes to keep my family together. Its to late for me, but I will be damned if I let my son make the same mistakes I do.

    • dannyfrom504 says:

      i think at the most i’d prefer mentoring boys and young men. many of them need it. one of the things that keep me blogging is getting an email from a male reader thanking me for helping give them some perspective.

      • andrewmichaelmedina says:

        Hell yes, this is what we need.

        We don’t need boys to inherit our genes, we need them to inherit our mindsets and philosophies.

  19. deti says:


    Are you reading this?

    Even married men are coming here saying if they had it to do over again, they wouldn’t.

    Even fathers are coming here saying if they had it to do over again, they woudn’t.

    What if anything are women going to do about this?

    • Spacetraveller says:


      We are hearing you.
      And we thank you for your message of truth.

      I know that to marry and have children is my first wish in life.
      I don’t really care about anything else. Really.
      So for me, to do things that would help me achieve that goal is not hard.
      I believe it is the same for any other woman.

      But the question is, will they listen to you (and frankly their own hearts, as I listen to mine) or will they listen to the lying feminists who have proven to their own selves that *their* way is not the right way?
      That’s the choice every woman has to make before it is too late.

      I know what my choice is.
      But then again, I am just one woman.
      What I do won’t change anyone else’s life but mine.
      I don’t know what the solution on a population scale would be.
      This sort of thing has to be done on an individual basis, I think…

      • deti says:

        “This sort of thing has to be done on an individual basis, I think…”

        Yep. There won’t be any civilization-wide solutions. All men and women will just have to do the best they can for themselves individually after arming themselves with all the information they can get.

        Mey son will be informed, and then he will make his own choices. Or not.

    • Bill Powell says:

      I’m with you on this deti, even though I love my two daughters dearly, given the chance I wouldn’t do it again given the chance. I see them being ruined by the woman I once loved and I have to be extremely strong not to go ballistic on a regular basis. Luckily I get them enough that I can try to de-program them from the toxic atmosphere they live in.

  20. Professor Mentu says:

    @Athol @Danny

    What man in his right mind would ever tell a woman he had ye snip?

    “Marriage and kids? Oh yeah, sweetie. It’s one of my top priorities.”

    The same woman who would be disinterested in you for having the snip will “love you for who you are” if she thinks you haven’t had the snip.

    Such a duplicitous nature. I enjoy lying to them.

    • just visiting says:

      Mentu said

      The same woman who would be disinterested in you for having the snip will “love you for who you are” if she thinks you haven’t had the snip.

      Such a duplicitous nature. I enjoy lying to them.

      Nothing duplicitous about it. It is what it is.
      Marriage minded women (minus card core careerists ) would back away.
      In the non marriage minded women category, some of the thrill might be gone. But these are usually short term relationships anyways.
      Some evidence that marriages or ltr’s not resulting in children have the woman’s body signaling her to cheat, but I’m not too sure about that.

      Women who have hysterectomies, their tubes tied, age out, or infertile face the same thing. It’s not duplictious,
      It just is what it is.

    • Spacetraveller says:

      Prof Mentu,

      I agree with JV on this one. If a woman wants marriage and kids and says so to a man, he SHOULD tell her that he has had a vasectomy. Not to do so would deny her a precious thing. She can then decide, once she knows the truth, whether she wants to continue with said man or not. As JV says, nothing duplicitous about it. The fact is, most women do want children. It is part of our ‘raison d’être’. Our very bodies are designed to carry children.
      Don’t shoot us for wanting what we were designed for!

      It is unscrupulous to lie to a woman about this if a LTR is on the cards.
      Please don’t do this, gentlemen.

      If it is a ONS or STR, or you are sure the woman doesn’t want kids anyway, or she is past child-bearing age, sure, go ahead, lie away.
      But don’t deny a young woman who wants to have a family of her own (with you) that chance.
      There is something gravely wrong about that.
      It would be better to simply walk away from her than lie to her…

      • M3 says:

        “But don’t deny a young woman who wants to have a family of her own (with you) that chance.
        There is something gravely wrong about that.”

        I think Mentu specifically stated that a young girl who wasn’t riding the ponies was off limits to him in this game, but that he would have no issue telling any post wall over thirty career saddled carousel ridden women everything she wanted to hear to fulfill her fabulous life promise of having it all by purposefully running out the clock on their delusions, hammering it home that this was a decision she should have seriously contemplated in her prime fertility years and not as an afterthought to be struck off the checklist. These are the types of women who live it up for themselves throughout life, make poor wives and terrible mothers and just look for a beta sucker, the type she ignored throughout her twenties to man up and shackle himself to the situation. Then it’s a coin toss whether she divorce rapes him and takes his kids.

        Good girls need not fear the Mentu.

        Spinsters not so much.

      • dannyfrom504 says:

        yes, that’s what he was alluding to.

  21. Athor Pel says:

    I’ve only learned about MGTOW in the last three or four years but apparently I’ve lived it for almost twenty years. Pretty soon after my divorce in the early nineties I just gave up on women altogether. Every one I’ve thought about marrying was not worth the trouble.

    Here’s the thing, by all objective measures I’m a catch. 6’4″, 210lbs, 46 years old but look mid-30’s, still have all my hair, very little gray, swimmer’s body, no debt, no prison record, no health problems, no mental health problems, blue collar Christian upbringing, some military service, graduate degree, good job, make more than I spend. By these objective measures I’m prime marriage material, a fine upstanding middle class provider.

    By subjective measure I’m good looking. Many guys have no idea whether they are good looking or not but I do have evidence. I’ve had unsolicited female attention since I was a child, with much of it being unwanted. I worry more about unintentionally leading women on rather than trying to garner their attention in the first place. That’s right, I’ve practiced anti-game my whole life.

    I could fairly easily get married again.

    Now for the punch line, I don’t want another marriage.

    If I, prime marriage material, gave up on marriage decades before formally taking the red pill then think of all the men in similar circumstances making the same decision. Think on that. There are blue pill men that are opting out. I can’t be all that unique. You don’t have to take the full blown red pill to opt out, you just have to assess the state of modern marriage objectively.

    • printio says:

      Problem is, women ultimately won’t care about good looks or health. If this becomes endemic, they’ll simply use their immense political clout to facilitate partner-free single motherhood through sperm banks (plenty of tall, smart, debt-free, no prison record, healthy sperm there), and husband-free families through an increasingly permissive welfare state, courtesy of wealth transfer from the disenfranchised males. You don’t want to marry? Eff-you, bachelor tax. No kids? Your taxes will be calculated based on lifestyle; no kids, no wife, more money at your disposal, you pay more.

      • Spacetraveller says:

        Yes, Printio,

        I have mentioned this to men who believe that opting out of marriage and kids for themselves is a good way out of this mire.
        But as you do, I say to them that their money will simply be directed to someone else’s kids.
        Wouldn’t it be better to have your own bloodline?
        I cannot be ‘projecting’ on this one, as this will never be my own reality, being a woman. I can tell you that if I don’t have children of my own, I will treat nieces and nephews as my own, so in many ways, I will feel as though my bloodline is still living on. (Yes, a man could do the same, but I wonder if in practical terms it feels the same??)

        I will never ever have the sensation that I am working for strangers’ children. A single man WILL be made to feel this way by the state…

        I am NOT saying that a man SHOULD have kids for this reason alone. I am however pointing out how bad the alternative to NOT having kids of your own also is…

        But I am sure you guys know this already 😦

  22. Jerry says:

    Danny et al:

    Yeah, it’s a meatgrinder. I love my kids but they hate me; Mommy’s use of Stockholm Syndrome is a Machiavellian masterpiece … haven’t heard from them in over a year for the last go-round. Tried remarriage, white-knighting with a single mom. That failed too (it’s so clear now, as to why), at least my stepkids love and respect me.

    When I hear of capable, bright – and primarily European- guys opting out of the gene pool it makes me sad, but I have to throw my two cents on the dogpile; you’ve chosen correctly.

    I do take consolation in two beautiful, bright, funny kids who will carry on my genetic legacy.

    But that’s pretty much it. Everything else about it is constraining, lonely and suffocating, like being buried alive sometimes. I was one of those AFC/Beta/worker-drones who shouldered the load and “manned up” (none of those terms existed in ’99, but it’s crystal clear to me today). I left Churchianity two years ago because of it.

    So I do my time in the child support gulag, and I use the time to plan, and develop my mind, body and game. I’ll be 50 when the boot finally lifts off my neck so I intend to hit the ground running. It’ll only be possible when the other 1/3 of my take-home stays in my possession.

    On this continent, you’ve gotta want kids pretty bad to stick your [future] into that kind of bear trap. If I had known Game, I might have made it work. Maybe.

    But far more likely, if I had had the Red Pill, it would never have happened.

  23. ASF says:

    The guys who should have kids don’t, and the guys who shouldn’t have kids do.

    • AndyW says:

      Its generalizations like this that get me heated. I am a good dad, and if my son chooses he will be a good dad as well becausee I have put the effort into his childhood and don’t just toss him an ipod and nintendo to keep him occupied. Raising children with morals and a level head these days is not easy, that’s why there are so many self ritous brats everywhere you look. I have made my decisions in life and have maned up to make the best next generation possible.

      I respect those men that go this route, my older brother is very similar to Danny here and we sit and compare lives. We each have shines and gripes but at the end of the day are content with what we have out of life for the sole reason that living in misery is not life worth living. He is the same cookie cutter where he is 45 successful and loves kids and is great with them but knows kids of his own are not what was meant for him.

  24. printio says:

    I hear ya. I’m not even 30 and already considering it. I don’t even trust the male pill; even if it works, I cannot prove I have actually taken it. With a vasectomy, I just need to produce the certificate and the test results proving that I’m shooting blanks. (Yeah, that Craiglist story stuck on me, don’t care if it’s fiction)

    As an aside, pension at 40, that’s super sweet. Maybe you could simply go abroad in more traditional countries like the Philippines or somesuch and raise a family there.

    • dannyfrom504 says:

      nope. a few acres in southern La. i’ll be happy as a pig in poop with my hunting camp. sleep late, hunt, beers, tend to the homestead. looking forward to it actually. what i end up doing will depend on the upcoming POTUS election.

  25. jt says:

    Whoa whoa…. Two years away from retirement. First timer here… What do you do for a living..


  26. dannyfrom504 says:

    ok, i’m back from work and can finally comment on this. first of all, the ladies brave enough to have joined the disscusion need to realize this is a SERIOUS issue for men. i think it’s best for the ladies to refrain from any further comments on this matter. it’d probably be best for any issues the ladies may have to just email me, and we can discuss this. but i think it’s best if you just let us guys sip our beer and talk amongst ourselves.

    “Yeah, it’s a meatgrinder. I love my kids but they hate me; Mommy’s use of Stockholm Syndrome is a Machiavellian masterpiece … haven’t heard from them in over a year for the last go-round. Tried remarriage, white-knighting with a single mom. That failed too (it’s so clear now, as to why), at least my stepkids love and respect me”

    THIS. this right here.

    i think what many women fail to realize is that when a man loses access/love/respect to/of his child, he becomes a hollow shell. it’s CRUSHING. i know, i’ve met MANY of these men. this is why i’d prefer the women to just read and refrain from commenting. i’ve told the above story for the last 10 years and women STILL try to rationalize my ADULT DECISION.

    this isn’t a bout trying to get back at or punish women: i LOVE women. this is about self preservation. this is about maintaining my sanity, and over all well being. while the imperative to reproduce is usually pretty strong in woman, it’s not so much in most men. it’s not that we don’t like kids, hell, i LOVE kids.

    but do i want one of my own. *shrugs shoulder* but i can say this.

    unless i meet my unicorn super perfect future bearer of my children in the next 2-3 years, it WON’T happen. as it is there’s about a 10% chance i’ll have a kid. and tbh, i’m not even looking. there’s a girl i’m interested, but my gut tells me it’s just not going to happen. and that’s fine. she’s a great girl and i’ll be there for her.

    i tried to email you, but the email was rejected. you will remain in moderation until i can ask some question. go to the contact section to reply.

  27. Marellus says:

    To the woe of women.

    This will become more shrill in the future.

  28. deti says:

    Before I found the manosphere 18 months ago, before Danny opened up this place, I had no idea about this.

    Eighteen months ago, I had no idea it was this bad.

    Just today — danny has had married men come in here and say essentially if they knew then what they know now, they wouldn’t have married.

    There are divorced fathers here saying they love their kids, but if they had it to do over again, they wouldn’t have brought their own children into this world.

    There’s at least one married man here today who loves his kids, but could take or leave their mother.

    There’s one man who posted here today saying he loves his kids, but they hate him and he hasn’t seen them in over a year.

    This floors me.

    I’m one of the married men who knows too much. My wife and kids still live with me. I’m one of the lucky ones.

    There are men here who don’t live with their kids. There are men here who love their kids but are indifferent to the mothers of their children.

    I know now how bad it is.

    • stormy says:

      These kinds of posts aren’t going to attract men that are happily married. The sphere selects for people who are not content with their current lives. It doesn’t provide an accurate portrayal of the whole situation, though it does provide an insight of what life/the SMP is for a proportion of the population.

      • M3 says:

        And everyday the sphere grows larger, both with new redpill victims looking for answers, and bluepillers who come across by accident and have their first real look into the looking glass.

        Exponentially this will become a huge societal problem if female nature does not take a course correction pronto. And by huge I mean death of the west due to immigration outpacing natural birthrates. A problem me and my non future offspring need worry about.

        I’ll b relaxing by the poolside with private man and cappy cap.

      • stormy says:

        I agree with you. I was going to add that that proportion seems to be getting larger. I’m concerned for it because I do want to get married and have children before I’m 30 and I don’t want to get divorced. I don’t think my goal will be super difficult to achieve but it isn’t getting any easier. That and also I want my future hubby to not hate me at some point or be miserable in the marriage. And there are men who cheat/zone out of perfectly good women out of boredom/variety seeking so it is a concern (I don’t think either gender is perfect or a victim, I see all people as equally responsible).

        As it is, aren’t immigrants mostly the ones having children?

      • deti says:


        And there are a lot of men out there who think they are happily married who soon find out their wives are not nearly as happy as their husbands think they are. They are the ones who stagger in here, saying things like

        “I can’t believe this is happening to me.”

        “I didn’t see this coming.”

        “I had no idea she was this unhappy.”

        “I found the text messages/emails/cell phone records/credit card records. She was f**king my best friend/my boss/her boss/her coworker/her old BF from HS she reconnected with on Facebook.”

        “She told me she just doesn’t want to be married anymore.”

        Then there are the men who can tell — something isn’t right. They love their wives, and their wives love them, but things don’t work so well in their marriages. He isn’t leading; she is pushing back at him; they both know it, and they’re both not happy about it and have no idea what to do about it. It’s off to MMSL they go.

      • stormy says:

        yeah this is what I’m afraid of. Though I wouldn’t cheat that’s messed up.

  29. deti says:

    And some of these men are saying “I’m with their mom, I have my kids, I’d do it differently given the chance. I’m just going to do the best I can.”

    These good men are willing to settle for a little contentment here and there so they can give their kids a fighting chance.

    There’s not a lot of happiness or freedom in that.

    Men were willing to settle for that as long as they knew they would get to see their kids and not have their wealth taken away. But if they can’t even have that, why should they sacrifice it for children they never get to see or to be robbed of their weaith?

  30. OffTheCuff says:

    Spacey: “But as you do, I say to them that their money will simply be directed to someone else’s kids.”

    Um. What I spend in taxes us nothing compared to what I spend on my own kids. And I am paying those taxes, whether I have children or not. Actually, I get a deduction and tax credit for having my own… but not nearly enough to offset cost of even 1 year of raising them.

    Stormy: It isn’t all that bad as Deti says. I like my kids. Knowing what I know now, I probably would have wound up exactly where I am now, though perhaps a little later, with more experience, and perhaps with one less kid… but not an appreciably different endgame. But I do have to admit it is FAR more dire than I had previously believed, with my naïve Pollyanna beleifs.

  31. Professor Mentu says:

    What M3 said.

    Early 20s, family minded, I walk away – not even a date.

    30-something, career PR specialist with a triple digit dick count who finally “discovered what she wants?” Heh. Game on, baby.

  32. Annie says:

    Why don’t you want to raise a kid in your 40s? My father had my sister when he was 41, and he was (and is) an awesome dad to her and to me (he had me in his late 20s). I’d say that he was a better dad to my sister because he was more patient, more settled in his career, with more time to spare and more understanding.

    (I’m totally biased though; I love kids, and I’d love to have a litter of them provided I had the money to pay for all of them; but I understand why some people are not so keen of them).

    • deti says:


      Maybe your question was to Danny, I don’t know.

      Most men in their 40s are slowing down sexually, but are in the primes of their careers and are working hard. They don’t want to have small babies or toddlers in their 40s.

      Babies are constant work. Gotta feed em, change em, clothe em, bathe em, put ointment on their butts. get up with em, rock em to sleep, get up with em at 2 am, get em back to sleep, play with em, talk to em, read to em, teach em. Easier to do that at 25 than 45.

    • dannyfrom504 says:

      what Deti said. like i said earlier, she REEEEEALLY has to prove to me she’s a winner for me to commit. while i do have someone on the horizon, i honestly don’t know if it’ll pan out.

  33. C says:

    One more thing to consider –

    Most men have experienced how fickle women’s attraction can be. What seems like a small detail can derail a woman’s interest. There is plenty of information on “flaking” all over the manosphere.

    In Marriage 2.0, the critical factor in preventing the wheels of the divorce industry from turning is the wife’s attraction to her husband. Every man has experience that a woman’s feelings of attraction are not a stable phenomenon.

  34. The Navy Corpsman says:

    I’m a happily married man, who would do it all again, especially knowing what I know now. My wife is one of the very best, certainly the very best for me. She gave me two incredible boys, both of whom grew up to be better men than their father. I would not change a thing, but I sure as hell ain’t gonna remarry if my wife is run over by a truck tomorrow.

    Having said all that as a foundation, let us not forget that a few dollars a month can save a few billion of your swimmers in a cryogenic state, and you can easily get in vitro babies for about 10 grand, if that is a huge need in the future. Do your research, make sure the cryo facility actually allows you to participate in the destruction of your wiggly worms, should you decide to get rid of them in the future…. I’ve read a couple stories how sperm banks sold sperm that was never donated, and had been marked for destruction by the owner of said sperm. They sold his swimmers to some facility in the UK, turns out the guy that stored his sperm had a known genetic disease, and more than five kids were born with the disease, big lawsuits etc

    As was mentioned above, when a responsible mature man wants children, it’s because he is participating in the care of those children, as well as the raising and teaching of those children. Society may well end up paying more for kids born to women with a turkey baster, but the Octomom is teaching Congress how bad it could be, and I don’t think single women are going to be able to rely on the govt to save their asses when their plans go down the drain, for whatever reason.

    A vasectomy is also a responsible man’s decision to NOT have children. I could go into some Red Pill long winded rant, but that isn’t the entire point, here. The point is, regardless of Danny’s marital status, LTR status, or even financial, retirement and any other status, he knows damned well that having a child right now, or in the foreseeable future is a bad idea, FOR HIM. The whole point is to ensure that he cannot get a woman pregnant. Certainly, none of the media or politicians will force women to be responsible for their own stupid decisions to sex their world indiscriminately, neither should Danny be suckered into fathering a child against his will.

    Man up? This IS the decision of a man. Yes, there are potential complications, like ANY surgery. There are potential complications to making the beast with two backs, also… such as twins. Danny, your mother has the right to be sad, she is your mother. I, however, applaud your decision to be responsible for yourself AND for thinking ahead to potential issues.

    Some men should never have become fathers, and did, and some men would be the best fathers, and won’t. Some men are already great fathers, and some men realize they do not want to be such. It’s THEIR lives, and their decisions. We don’t yet live in Communist China, where reproductive choices are made for us by the government.

    Brother, glad to read you are ok… sorry I was gone this past week, took my eldest grandson hunting, he stuck a five point bull. We had a LONG pack out, and just got home last night. 490 lbs of steaks, roasts and about 100 of stew meat. I am forced to admit that I cannot keep up like I used to, he was climbing mountains while I was puffing up hills.

    Be well, Brother.

    The Navy Corpsman

  35. […] From 504 – Woe Of Women, Fuck My Life, Advice From Cholos, Steak Au Poivre, Socially Unacceptable, The Twenty Minute ONS […]

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