The coffee cup, the shit test, and the INTJ

i was putting away dishes from a LOOOOONG time ago (i’m lazy) and i finally got around to putting back the glasses and i realized all my coffee cups were in the dish washer. as i put the cups away, i finally ran across my rue de la course coffee mug. rue de la course was my study spot. it’s on carrolton and oak. oak st. is a magic little microcosm of the city.

at first i was a bit shocked because…..NO ONE gets to use my coffee mug but me (i think my mom used it). it’s special. see, they don’t sell this style mug anymore. i copped it YEARS ago and now they only sell these small single serving size cups. then i remembered one morning back in NO. i was seeing this girl and she wanted coffee and grabbed my mug (she knew i didn’t let other’s use it). i stopped her and grabbed another mug, which she argued. i told her-

“sorry, it’s just i’m the only one that uses my mug, i told you that.”

she pushed it and i insisted that she use a different one (frame holding- of course i was still purple and evolving to red pill) and again she kept insisting that i let her use it. now, i’ve always been big on “there are certain borders i have that i DO NOT allow to be breached”, the mug being one of them. if i’ve made my mind up about something, it takes an act of God for me to reverse myself.

if i’m out with friends, and i decide i’m ready to leave….i leave. any goading, ridicule, ribbing, etc will NOT deter me. matter of fact, it will probably ensure i never go out with said group again. this is definitely an INTJ thing. yes, i know it seems trivial, but here’s how i see it.

in situations such as these, ESPECIALLY when it concerns a woman, giving in to something this small sets a precedence that she can come into my world and fuck with my borders. i feel it shows she has little respect for boundaries and my individuality. i finally dropped this on her-

“tell you what, let me bang you in the ass (which she REFUSED….and i never pushed it) and you can use my mug.”

of course she called me unreasonable and made every argument she could and i simply went back to, “so….ass sex tonight?” she was trapped and i think she finally realized it since she finally went for a different mug. of course i got the silent treatment, and some bitchiness until i finally told her to get dressed because i was taking her home.

yet another shit test.

she fired off a, “fine” and went into the bedroom to change. i finished my coffee and went into the bathroom to put on deodorant. as i went into the bedroom to change she looked at me bewildered and asked, “what are you doing?” i told her dead-pan (and didn’t look at her) that i was getting dressed to take her home. i could feel her going into panic mode then she reframed about how she had a lot to do anyway. she commented-

“good, then this ends up perfectly.”

i ended up dropping her off and i went to go study. when i got home (3-4 hours later) and i saw i had 3 messages- all from her. she apologized for being unreasonable and blah, blah, blah. it was obvious she worked on this little diatribe and i didn’t call her until the next day (wasn’t a tactic, i just really didn’t want to talk to her). we dated for a 2-3 more months then it just played itself out. we talked occasionally and when i mentioned a girl she’d rib me with, “she hasn’t touched your mug has she.” cute, but i know women enough to know i’d done the right thing by standing my ground.

i know it seems trivial, but as an INTJ i’m a very very VERY solitary creature. i actually enjoy being alone, thrive in it. now, all things considered i’m a VERY giving guy. seriously, i say yes to 98% of the shit a woman asks of me (99.8% to family). but there are a few things that i’m persnickety about. and YES….to this day, NO ONE uses my mug but me. i have 7 others, PLENTY of choices for someone to choose from.

i let VERY few people outside my immediate family into my little world. when i actually allow a woman a glimpse of it, she can easily push me away by pressuring me to do something i’ve decided against. if she wants to go to a certain restaurant that i have told her i don’t like, we’ll go- but i won’t eat. i’ll just order an iced tea and politely watch her eat. the GF in Japan learned this one quick. maybe i’m being unreasonable, but in the early phases a woman can SERIOUSLY blow it with me by not respecting my little idiosyncrasies. and the sad thing is, when i walk…..i’m gone. done. i bear her no ill will, and i’m actually friends with more than one of the ex’s.

i never said us INTJ’s weren’t odd creatures, but the small borders we have are minuscule compared to the gift of the loyalty, devotion, and sheer fun we can provide.

my mug is the big 'un. DO NOT TOUCH MY MUG!!!!!!

my mug is the big ‘un. DO NOT TOUCH MY MUG!!!!!!

[ed- if you’re the reader that’s linking me on the-coli, please shoot me an email. you can find it at the top of the site as “contact”. i WILL keep your handle anon. thanks]

42 Comments on “The coffee cup, the shit test, and the INTJ”

  1. aneroidocean says:

    That IS a cool mug. I actually haven’t done one of those tests in a LONG time, not sure what I’d come out to. I have a lot of patience, but once someone has pushed me past that point, I have no patience for them anymore.

    Funny that she thought you weren’t actually going to take her home.

  2. Spoos in August says:

    Coffee mugs are serious business.

    It’s not unreasonable at all to stop dating someone who won’t respect your idiosyncrasies, both large and small. Better for both parties, really, since it will become an issue later on, and you’ll likely have ceded the frame by not asserting yourself from the beginning.

  3. deti says:

    Because it’s MY damn mug, that’s why.

  4. deti says:

    Danny, you’ve hit on something pretty important here. The “boundaries” shit test.

    Just about every man has a little something that’s special to him. I dunno, maybe it’s a picture, or a figurine, or a piece of jewelry, or a book. Could be anything. So a girl sees this thing, and it’s odd or unique enough that it stands out. And you explain what it is, and what it means to you, that it’s special to you, and why it’s special.

    Then your girl wants to see it, touch it, play with it, read it, take it home …. whatever.

    It could be that she just wants to see, touch, hold or read something that’s special to you, because it is special to you. But it could be a shit test if she’s continuing to insist on it even after you say “no”. She’s pissed that this trinket is more special to you than she is. But the point is…. It’s my thing, it’s special to me, and I said “no”.

    My dad had these old beer steins he bought in Germany when he was in the Army stationed there. He liked them. They reminded him of some good times as a young single guy. He didn’t even drink beer. They sat on a shelf in his home office. And no one was ever allowed to touch them. Not Mom, not me or my sisters, not guests… no one. Oh, you could look at them. You could ask about them and talk about them. But no one was allowed to touch them or pick them up. Now he could pick them up and show them to you. But you were not allowed to pick them up, not even after asking.

    Because they were (and are) his. Dad packed them up years ago when he and Mom moved to a smaller house. And no one else has ever touched them. because they’re his. End of story.

    • dannyfrom504 says:

      dude, my mom used my mug and it creased me. this was just some girl i was seeing…….

      multiply crease by 100000000.

    • Stingray says:

      She’s pissed that this trinket is more special to you than she is.

      Yep. Also, she knows that if she ever wears you down and you do let her touch/use it then that in turn makes her an extra special snowflake. Don’t ever underestimate the power of making a woman feel special! It’s like crack cocaine.

      • dannyfrom504 says:

        But, it’s not more special than she is. It’s just something dear to me. A woman I adore is NOT more important than a coffee mug. I just have my little boundaries.

        Respect them, that’s all I ask.

        Sent from my iPhone

      • Stingray says:

        I know that, but that’s what makes it so confusing for us. If it’s not more special that I am, why can’t I just touch it!?!?! I waaaaannnnnnaaaa!

  5. Altimanx says:

    My recent experience with a young woman was that she just gave up arguing with me, she just said that there was no point. She said it when we were amongst friends, not just to me. It was a statement of fact, whether she was complaining or just acknowledging it I don’t know (I didn’t care and that discussion would have looked weak, so I put my curiosity away and let it go).

    I would have happily admitted to being beaten in an argument, but it never happened. That’s what happens when you bring democrat arguments up against someone who knows reality and will not play along with dumb ideas. Such as ‘hi-capacity’ magazines being teh evil / guns shouldn’t even look like ‘assault weapons’ – they are scawy. Later I let her play with 25 round mag rifle with adjustable stock…she was fine with it at the time, big smiles. What did upset her was not being big and strong enough to play with other toys (I imagine that that is what 20ga was invented for – teh laydees).

    Luckily, given that it didn’t work out, she wasn’t that good lucking and had a entitled attitude (she might have had some good looking, more mature, sane friends tho – damn!). I dropped her cold. I figure that I did her a favor. If enough people do it she might smarten up and sweeten up (stop trying to be a second rate version of a man), if she’s lucky it’ll be before her future contains only cats and regrets.

    I’d love to have taken her through some red-pill stuff (to help her), stuff like ‘men like femininity in looks and attitudes’. the basics

  6. I get this one, Danny. πŸ™‚

    But one doesn’t know these things until one is taught, sometimes the hard way.
    So go easy on the girl in the future, OK?

    Thus endeth the shrieks of ‘but they don’t know!’ from Spacetraveller.

    PS: I know what you mean about INTJs. As you know, I have been swimming in a pool of these types – since birth.

    • dannyfrom504 says:

      i wasn’t rough on her. rough and assertive are 2 different things Love.

      On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 6:58 AM, dannyfrom504

      • I know you weren’t. What I meant was, it is useful to bear in mind that there is profound ignorance out there and to act accordingly, for the future .
        I make no comment about this particular girl – what’s done’s done.

        It is sometimes difficult to distinguish between ignorance and willful malicious intent on the part of (especially younger people). This may be why I like to err on the side of ‘giving the benefit of the doubt’ but I sense that is not your modus operandi as a man. πŸ™‚

        I wholehartedly agree with you that ‘holding the frame’ for a man is a very good policy though. Assertion is indeed very attractive, yes, (in a man, that is). I can confirm that. πŸ˜›

      • dannyfrom504 says:


        the other side of the coin is that when i DO know she respects my boundaries she’d have passed MY shit test.

  7. Vicomte says:

    Seemed like a pretty fair trade to me.

    Especially considering the mug doesn’t need to be rinsed out first.

  8. MissMarie says:

    We’re really just large children, ya know. Tell us not to touch something and “ZOMG I must touch it!!!” πŸ˜€ My Dad has a few things like that, so I’m used to not crossing boundaries, but the desire is still there, lol. I can’t imagine pushing as hard for it as she did, though, seems kinda silly. I can’t touch it? You’re sure? Ok then, moving on. I mean, what a silly thing, to waste that much time arguing over a coffee mug (on her part, not yours).

    • dannyfrom504 says:

      i was about to say, i wasn’t arguing. i just kept up that i’d be blasting her in the keyster before she uses my mug.

    • Totally agree with you, MissMarie!

      It has recently registered with me that as women, we are not particularly ‘gifted’ with a sense of ‘boundaries’. We invade each other’s privacy all the time (watch how girl friends hug each other and get real close to each other all the time, lol) whereas men have a natural ‘stop’ sign that they flash at you if you get too close. πŸ™‚

      One of my own ‘aha’ moments came when I discovered this fundamental difference between the genders. And this from someone who is fairly atypical in that I have had clear boundaries from a young age due to introversion. But even I don’t come close to most men on this issue.

      Don’t get me wrong – this lack of boundaries has its uses – I am not knocking it! Afterall, there is no ‘boundary’ between a Mum and her baby – none at all during pregnancy anyhow, given that one is PART of the other for a time, and during infancy we all rely on our mothers to have zero boundaries with us.

      But it is a disaster strategy when tried out on men, as Danny’s girl found out…

      Nice demonstration of this phenomenon, Danny. Your blog is indeed a good education for both men and women.
      After my PhD in DannyStudies, will I get a job in the University of Danny??

      No? Oh well, it was worth a try. You don’t know till you ask. πŸ˜€

  9. TempestTcup says:

    It’s funny because INTJs are only supposed to be 2% of the population (.8% for females) yet I swear that the manosphere is at about 20% or more. We should totally spray for them πŸ™‚

    Both my husband & I are INTJ, and we get along really well for two people who are right all the time & know everything, lol.

  10. M3 says:

    Didn’t know you were an IntJ. Always pegged you as an Ext somethin.

    I’m total Int something. I even have to take breaks from blogging because it drains me πŸ˜›

    Similar story to your shit test. Ex FWB went up with me to a old friends place 2 hours out of town. It was cold, like minus 15 C cold outside. I still smoked on occasion and she was a regular chimney. I had just purchased my new car and she was used to smoking in my car.

    She asked if she could light up on the way home. I told her no, if she wanted i could stop by a Tim Hortons on the way and we could have a smoke outside. She threw every shit test in the book. The “rational” arguments. The prior precedents. Her new ‘status’. Pouting. Slamming her open faced palms repeatedly against the dashboard (to which i scolded her on).

    She couldn’t break me. I even threatened to pull the car over and kick her into a snowbank. She folded her arms up real tight and with pouted lips exhorted ‘FINE’.

    I stopped at the coffee shop and we ordered, went back outside and started up a smoke. We didn’t make it halfway through the smoke before we chucked it and jumped back into the warm vehicle, where she started pleading with me again. I told her i didn’t want to go full Ceasar Milan on her so she best behave.

    Once she was nice and quiet and not pouty i told her she could take her (ugggg) crocs off and rest her feet up on the dash as her reward for being good. I don’t know what it is about that, but that seems to always put girls in a pleasant mood.

    • Vicomte says:

      David Foster Wallace makes the same observation in Infinite Jest, that women like to take their shoes off, put their stuff down, and make themselves at home everywhere. Men like to be able to move.

      I put my boots on before I brush my teeth and take a piss in the morning.

    • dannyfrom504 says:


      everyone says that. all my extrovert side comes out when i’m at work- i’m chipper, upbeat, making jokes, etc. when i leave work, i want to unplug. i’m a total homebody. if i don’t know you, i ignore you. i’ll be polite but i WILL not initiate conversation, i don’t WANT to talk with you. if you’re a girl, different story- especially if she’s cute.

  11. MissMarie says:

    “You and Miss Marie need to quit looking at my damn mug. Lol. ”

    But Daaaannnny!!! We didn’t *touch* the mug… It’s just so…alluring!

  12. Athor Pel says:

    Just thinking about a girl messing with my stuff makes my gut knot up. Knowing a girl is a boundary pusher makes me instantly write her off.

    If I don’t trust you with my stuff I’m not going to date you, much less marry you.

    I’m imagining a scenario much like Danny described in this post and my first reaction is to quickly escalate to violation of her personal space coupled with wet willies in her ears and nose along with licking her eyeballs and messing up her hair while also taking her clothes off and smearing crap from the trash on her body.

    Push my boundaries and I will push back.

    • dannyfrom504 says:

      i don’t think i’d go that far, but that’s just me. but understand what you’re saying.

    • Stingray says:

      Holy cow Athor, that is absolutely hysterical. I was wondering this because I am a boundary pusher. Not in the way the girl here did, but in the “I’m not touching it, I’m not touching it” kind of way with my finger and inch away from it. I learn very quickly when this is not even appreciated and I will knock it off when necessary, but give me an inch and I will go for the tease every time. My husband usually does respond with some kind of wet willy treatment. It so much fun.

  13. MissMarie says:

    I’ve gotta say too, this INTJ thing is pretty interesting. I took the test a long time ago and came up INTJ but didn’t think much about it. Been thinking on it more lately, and it finally makes sense why I’m so drained/worn out after social situations. My sponsor and I went to meet the Bishop Sunday and basically it was a full day of talking to people and socializing and driving and and and and even though I had plenty of sleep and was home at 6:30 I was almost comatose. But I can sit alone and read all day and be fine. Also, I absolutely *cannot* abide people touching almost any of ‘my stuff’ in my office, makes me downright twitchy. At least I know there’s some explanation for it besides being uptight and ‘no fun’ πŸ™‚

    • dannyfrom504 says:

      When I leave work, I want to shut down and decompress. Add PTSD to the equation. It’s just how we are. I honestly prefer to be alone.

      I mean, I’m planning on settling a microfarm on a few acres in Texas.

      • MissMarie says:

        I know exactly what you mean (except about the PTSD, I can’t even imagine that). Although, I don’t want to be alone a majority of the time. Ideally, I’d like someone I can cuddle with on the couch and read a book/watch tv with very little dialogue much of the time. We’ll see if that materializes though. I really can’t stand getting home from work and being inundated with questions and chatter, it really stresses me out.

  14. ChesterPoe says:

    This post made me laugh. I hate people touching my stuff, even items that are not of much importance. However, ask me for something and I am one of the most charitable people around. You were a bit more lenient with the lady trying to use your mug than I would have been. Most women like to push boundaries, a trait which really annoys me.

    As for the Myers-Briggs indicator, I am an ISTJ who is borderline INTJ (90% introverted, 80% thinking). Thanks to taking the red pill, playing the extravert is much easier now. Funny how there seem to be so many INTJs in the red pill part of the blogging world when they constitute roughly only 2% of the human population.

    • LifeUniverse42 says:

      It’s not so surprising most of them are INTJ. INTJ are the system builder. We like to have models to explain how the world around us work.

      The red pill/manosphere/game/[your preferred acronym here] is simply a new shinny model to explain the social dynamic between man and woman. Once you know how the model work, you can use in a multitude of way, depending on your goal.

      We also disregard authority if needed. We are ready to take charge if we see the need, not that we enjoy it, but we can. There a list describing the characteristic of INTJ on wikipedia. I could see a lot of different way for almost all characteristic to help create this corner of the web.

  15. Keanu says:

    Once you understand shit tests, you are amazed that you went along with all the shit you used to go along with. So funny, that girls actually want to test your boundaries like that.

    My LTR once told me that one of the things that added to my attractiveness was the fact that I swore off cocaine (a close cousin of mine nearly died from an overdose), and even in the midst of a bunch of coke-sniffing frat boys, I would not budge to peer pressure.

    Consistency and unwaveringness are attractive to women. Fickleness is not.

    Girls pushing boundaries unconsciously is ONE thing, them doing it consciously is unacceptable.

    Then again, we are all here talking about how to consciously pass their tests…hmmm.

    Props on using “persnickety” btw

  16. Emma the Emo says:

    I’m supposed to be an INTJ according to this system too. It’s pretty simple: I know I have stuff I don’t want others to touch, and in return lay off the things they don’t want to me to touch. Unless I want them to start pushing, I don’t go there, lol

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